HomeFrostburntCalendarFAQSearchUsergroupsLog inRegisterMemberlistContent
Share | 
 

 Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
DCWasteland3r

avatar

Posts : 526
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:37 pm

Ok, let me start by saying that this suggestion IS NOT JUST ABOUT BUFFING WEAPONS For this reason, the suggested changes come in two flavors. This is about a weapon rebalance, mainly centered around making weapons using the same bullet do the same damage. This will also show the changes to individual weapons damage. Damage values marked with ? Are values which I am not 100% sure are currently used. Side note, all AmmoTypes damages should be divisible by 5, just because it looks nicer.

Basic Idea-
(9mm = 25 Damage.) (Current Glock 19 = 15? Current P226 = 19 Current MP5 = 19?)
(.223 = 30 Damage) (Current M4a1 = 21, Current Famas = 21? Current Sg552orwhatever = 21?)
(.45 ACP = 35 Damage) (Current M1911 = 28 Current MAC-10 = 19? Current Model CMG = 28)
(7.62x39mm = 35 Damage) (Current AK-47 = 28? Current Sako = 28? Current SKS = 34)
(.44 Magnum = 55 Damage) (Current Raging Bull = 58)
(.50 AE = 65 Damage) (Current Desert Eagle = 70)
(.308 = 65 Damage) (Current SR-25 = 55, Current G3 = 40, Current M14 = 38(WTF), Current M24 = 75) - Major Imbalance in this one.
(12 Gauge = 120 Damage) (Current Remington 870 = 120, Current KS-23 = 120) Looks O.K. To me.
(.50 BMG = 150 Damage) (Current Barret .50 = 150?) 150 Damage Seems reasonable based on other weapons' stats.

Alternate Nerfier Stats Idea-
(9mm = 20 Damage.) (Current Glock 19 = 15? Current P226 = 19 Current MP5 = 19?)
(.223 = 25 Damage) (Current M4a1 = 21, Current Famas = 21? Current Sg552orwhatever = 21?)
(.45 ACP = 30 Damage) (Current M1911 = 28 Current MAC-10 = 19? Current Model CMG = 28)
(7.62x39mm = 30 Damage) (Current AK-47 = 28? Current Sako = 28? Current SKS = 34)
(.44 Magnum = 55 Damage) (Current Raging Bull = 58)
(.50 AE = 60 Damage) (Current Desert Eagle = 70)
(.308 = 60 Damage) (Current SR-25 = 55, Current G3 = 40, Current M14 = 38(WTF), Current M24 = 75) - Major Imbalance in this one.
(12 Gauge = 120 Damage) (Current Remington 870 = 120, Current KS-23 = 120) Looks O.K. To me.
(.50 BMG = 150 Damage) (Current Barret .50 = 150?) 150 Damage Seems reasonable based on other weapons' stats.

Edit: Pulse ammunition is a special case.
Base Version
Pulse Rifle and LMG - 1 ammo consumed per shot, 30 Damage Per Shot.
Pulse Sniper - 2 ammo consumed per shot, 60 Damage Per shot.

Nerfier Version
Pulse Rifle and LMG - 1 ammo consumed per shot, 25 Damage Per Shot.
Pulse Sniper - 2 ammo consumed per shot, 50 Damage Per shot.

(Current Pulse Rifle and LMG = 28, Current Pulse Sniper = 62)

__________________________
I'm back bitches!


Last edited by DCWasteland3r on Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
James King

avatar

Posts : 290
Join date : 2014-03-29

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:48 pm

EVERYONE would start using .308, an assault rifle that does 60 damage? Sign me up

__________________________
#freecartersmith
Post high score: 4,darkcave
Mufucking uhhhhh - November 2014, Professional Roaster
Back to top Go down
View user profile
DCWasteland3r

avatar

Posts : 526
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:50 pm

The only reason .308's would do 60 damage is because of the massive level of imbalance specifically in .308 weapons. M24 does almost twice the damage of a .308 Assault Rifle atm.

__________________________
I'm back bitches!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Tactical Bacon

avatar

Posts : 582
Join date : 2013-05-26

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:11 pm

For the most part you're correct about the damage stats. Sako and AK47 do 2 less damage, MAC11 does 27, the pulse LMG actually does 26 damage, and I don't know anything else lol. Usually know a lot about the rifles.

I'm not a big fan of massive weapon damage differences. Since the 7.62x39mm and 7.62x51mm have very minuscule differences in actual bullet size, the damage difference should be different only by six or seven. Accuracy would be greatly improved however and the recoil would not be that much bigger.

It would be interesting if armor penetration would vary from weapon to weapon. A pistol caliber would penetrate waaaay less while a rifle would still do quite a bit. e.g. 5.56x45mm weapons penetrate 10 (idk, this is kinda a stupid idea but I just thought of it) percent of the armor, meaning how much ballistic resistance the armor has, is reduced by 10, allowing the weapon to do (slightly) more damage to the armor user, while it would have no effect on unarmored dudes, it would do slightly more damage to armored opponents. If the weapon cannot penetrate (meaning if it cannot do more than 75% damage of the armor's ballistic resistance, it is then converted to melee damage or something.) it would still do some damage, but not much.

This also means that most armors that have great ballistic resistance and melee resistance needs to be toned down quite a bit. It also reminds me of the armor piercing rounds we had with customizable weaponry. Shotguns and pistols would have way less impact on the better armored opponents but later down the road when shotguns are made for CW 2.0, you could get slugs that deal way more damage.

Also, the M14 does less damage due to it's RPM compared to that of the G3 although I do believe it has a ungodly amount of kick compared to the G3. M24 does more damage because it's a bolt action. Makes no sense realistically, but it makes more sense game play wise.

__________________________
Res ad triarios venit

Never pet a burning dog.

Feels fuckin' good to kill I guess.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Malcom

avatar

Posts : 297
Join date : 2013-08-01

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:50 pm

you are passing over the mechanism of the guns and weapon balances
in reality
guns powers are not only affects by the bullet but length of the barrel and gun point and each gun has different mechanism it makes them have various power,recoil,range

and in balance
it will be very fun if those guns have exact damages dosent it?
why do they have different price,why they have different magazine,why they have different fire rate,recoil,RPM,accuracy etc.
each people have their tastes and they use different type of the stuffs, some ppl like one-shot high power guns, some ppl like fast shooting guns, some may bothered accuracy, some may bothered damage
also

about the bolt action
in reality
it has more long range because of this mechanism
for automatics they use their gas power for pushing the bullet and pushing the bolt so they lose their power slightly(affects to the range)
but bolt action
it use its gas power for only pushing bullet so it has more range
i do belive no need to explain the association with power and range

in balance
nobody will use the bolt action if they have same damage
why do they use m24? we have semi automatic sr25

__________________________

Sakuya dance
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Jeff Belinger
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 1023
Join date : 2013-09-08

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:30 am



Malcom brings the fairest point. Weapons with same ammunition type but different mechanisms will have a lot of difference in how much impact and stopping power they have, how accurate, how fast the rounds are being fired at and how fast the round is going as well as how tight the spread of the gun is and the kick of the gun.

Hell, sometimes there's even differences between same gun models wih same ammo because of gunsmith's skill in assembling the weapon, but that's real life situation.


__________________________
Gyro count highscore: 5
You saw a chemical bin? WHERE!?!?!?!?!!!!

HUEG BLAK DOODS
having good rp doesnt make one fit for staff duties, especially if said people are always playing with the same small group of people and no one else. staying in an echo chamber only makes your own words reflected back to you and whoever else is in the chamber. people applying for staff need to not only know the staff, but also how the playerbase can react to interactions between itself, the general staff base and the applicant
Back to top Go down
View user profile
DCWasteland3r

avatar

Posts : 526
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:33 am

-7.62x39 and 7.62x51 Are more different than you think. That extra case length translates to a lot more propellant and a lot more force behind the bullet as a result. I do like your idea of making pistols shitty against armor though. That's a good idea.
-There ARE differences in the performance of weapons, depending on mechanism, yes, but the way they are presented on this server is Beyond unreasonable. You don't get 2x the muzzle energy firing a bullet out of a bolt-action as opposed to a gas-operated rifle.
Edit: Also, as far as not using the M24 as the result of this rebalancing goes, I always thought that the M24 would have been better suited as a "hunting rifle" type weapon. Moderate cost, high(ish) damage, accessible to mid-level players. Not the 300 300 300 unbalanced monster that it is.

__________________________
I'm back bitches!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Jeff Belinger
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 1023
Join date : 2013-09-08

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:43 am

Ok, I'm not that big a /k/ommando, but look at this


7.62x39 is in NO WAY comparable to 7.62x51 NATO.
7.62x39 was, and still is, the ex-Warsaw Pact AR ammo for their weapons.
That round is more comparable to 5.56mm in terms of overall size.

As a matter of fact, the Russian equivalent of the 7.62x51mm is actually nearly the same, and by nearly I mean not really.

They used 7.62x54mmR for their high powered precision rifle, the Dragunov being my reference point.

I guess ex-Warsaw pact nations wanted their ammo bigger than their NATO opponents for the different properties and also the fact that the enemy wouldn't be able to use their own ammo against them with their weapons

__________________________
Gyro count highscore: 5
You saw a chemical bin? WHERE!?!?!?!?!!!!

HUEG BLAK DOODS
having good rp doesnt make one fit for staff duties, especially if said people are always playing with the same small group of people and no one else. staying in an echo chamber only makes your own words reflected back to you and whoever else is in the chamber. people applying for staff need to not only know the staff, but also how the playerbase can react to interactions between itself, the general staff base and the applicant
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Malcom

avatar

Posts : 297
Join date : 2013-08-01

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:03 am

DCWasteland3r wrote:
-7.62x39 and 7.62x51 Are more different than you think. That extra case length translates to a lot more propellant and a lot more force behind the bullet as a result. I do like your idea of making pistols shitty against armor though. That's a good idea.
-There ARE differences in the performance of weapons, depending on mechanism, yes, but the way they are presented on this server is Beyond unreasonable. You don't get 2x the muzzle energy firing a bullet out of a bolt-action as opposed to a gas-operated rifle.
Edit: Also, as far as not using the M24 as the result of this rebalancing goes, I always thought that the M24 would have been better suited as a "hunting rifle" type weapon. Moderate cost, high(ish) damage, accessible to mid-level players. Not the 300 300 300 unbalanced monster that it is.

low fire late
you have to reload after one shot
5 magazine
i think this already explained all?

you are saying m24 is more better for hunt
and yes,of course its better because it has slight more damage and can kill normal ghoul with just one shot
but, can you kill the player with just one shot that equiped a armor?
the balance means the rationality in all the situation
as you said m24 is good for hunt but the gun fight is different
we need immediate support and m24 is not fit sr25 is more fit
i think you know the why ppl developed the automatic?


i already suggested the balance of the guns(not same as your idea)
each guns should have different RPM,recoil,accuracy,damage
that will make the game more fun
but it hasent accept well for damages and i do understand the why
because ppl will use only highest damage weapons
but this is about those rifles,pistols,smgs not the sniper
who will use 60 damage bolt action we already have 60 damage automatic?

__________________________

Sakuya dance
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Tactical Bacon

avatar

Posts : 582
Join date : 2013-05-26

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:21 am

DCWasteland3r wrote:
-7.62x39 and 7.62x51 Are more different than you think. That extra case length translates to a lot more propellant and a lot more force behind the bullet as a result. I do like your idea of making pistols shitty against armor though. That's a good idea.

I may have worded it weird, I meant that the bullet itself wasn't different. Sure there's more gunpowder and a boom behind it and I probably didn't word it correctly. Remember reading something that the 7.62x51mm bullet is like 0.30 millimeters bigger than the 7.62x39mm but I may be wrong.

__________________________
Res ad triarios venit

Never pet a burning dog.

Feels fuckin' good to kill I guess.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Cap-Coop

avatar

Posts : 59
Join date : 2013-11-17

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:41 am

Has it ever been considered to introduce different damage types? Perhaps higher caliber weapons should simply inflict a *knock-back effect coupled with their base damage and lower caliber should inflict bleeding and slowly to offset their lower overall damage.


__________________________


☽ Luna Nobis Providet ☽
Back to top Go down
View user profile
DCWasteland3r

avatar

Posts : 526
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:59 am

Malcom wrote:

who will use 60 damage bolt action we already have 60 damage automatic?

People who can't afford the 60 damage automatic, or people who want to conserve ammo. A G3 will eat through ammo a lot faster than an M24, and would, if this balance were made, cost more than the M24. The m24 would be a mid-tier weapon, and a precision weapon, since you can't snipe effectively with a G3.

__________________________
I'm back bitches!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Malcom

avatar

Posts : 297
Join date : 2013-08-01

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:42 am

g3 is not even sniper weapon here and its just using 7.62x51 like m60
and its irrelevant with ammo consuming speed and the hightest of the tier because 7.62x51 is already in high tier
and as your opinion
there is no meaning dividing the tier, just buy the m14 and attach the scope so we have cheapest and effective sniper there is no need g3,sr25,m24 because they have same damage and they all can be used for sniping
no need to think about the bolt action mechanism even it is good for sniper

and im realy want to know who wants to buy the 7.62x51 weapon while it cost very much and costs 2 gunpowder to make just 20 bullet
like i said they are already in high class

this is about the same rifles damage not the distance with 76251 damages
and im pointing about your same damage idea
maybe m14 could has more damage than the g3, but not same damage
and there is no problem with sr25 and m24
and there is no need to move m24 to the low tier

__________________________

Sakuya dance
Back to top Go down
View user profile
DCWasteland3r

avatar

Posts : 526
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:26 am

Malcom wrote:

there is no meaning dividing the tier, just buy the m14 and attach the scope so we have cheapest and effective sniper there is no need g3,sr25,m24 because they have same damage and they all can be used for sniping
no need to think about the bolt action mechanism even it is good for sniper

The other guns are less accurate than the M24, and like I said, the M24 would need to be made cheaper. However, the G3 does not support a scope at all, so it would not be useable as a sniper rifle and a variation of the M14, the M24, was used for sniping, but was later replaced by more accurate weapons, on the basis of accuracy alone. I believe the M24 would retain an accuracy advantage, even if damage was rebalanced. And, of course, the .308 Assault Rifles could be made more expensive to compensate for increased effectiveness.

__________________________
I'm back bitches!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
xXxLegit_SwagxXx
Ban
avatar

Posts : 22
Join date : 2014-12-01

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:09 pm

Back to top Go down
View user profile
DCWasteland3r

avatar

Posts : 526
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:48 pm

xXxLegit_SwagxXx wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgflscOmW8

Reported for Cyberbullying.

__________________________
I'm back bitches!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Bizz
Founder
Founder
avatar

Posts : 1633
Join date : 2013-05-07

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:35 pm

You're damage values are so off that it's irritating.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.frostburnt.com/
DCWasteland3r

avatar

Posts : 526
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:00 pm

Which ones? I can't exactly check the stats on every gun. Taxpayer money only goes so far.

__________________________
I'm back bitches!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
FreeYummy



Posts : 108
Join date : 2014-10-12

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:14 pm

O YOU KNOW WE CAN JUST PLAY LIKES ITS COD AND USE ONE WEAPON TO DOMINATE EVERY ONE, o wait that has happend, its called the pusle guns
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Cap-Coop

avatar

Posts : 59
Join date : 2013-11-17

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:45 pm

I still say we should make the health system more complex than simple hit-points. I'd love to see something tied to your maximum rad levels along with your stances on food and drink. Maybe something similar to how health works in 7DtD; it would at least give a reason for people to not care what their rad level is and totally ignore it since there aren't extremely apparent consequences.


__________________________


☽ Luna Nobis Providet ☽
Back to top Go down
View user profile
DCWasteland3r

avatar

Posts : 526
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:51 pm

Cap-Coop wrote:
I still say we should make the health system more complex than simple hit-points. I'd love to see something tied to your maximum rad levels along with your stances on food and drink. Maybe something similar to how health works in 7DtD; it would at least give a reason for people to not care what their rad level is and totally ignore it since there aren't extremely apparent consequences.

I always thought that bleeding, or some kind of debuff after being shot would be a good idea, but most people seem opposed to it.

__________________________
I'm back bitches!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Malcom

avatar

Posts : 297
Join date : 2013-08-01

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:05 pm

DCWasteland3r wrote:
Cap-Coop wrote:
I still say we should make the health system more complex than simple hit-points. I'd love to see something tied to your maximum rad levels along with your stances on food and drink. Maybe something similar to how health works in 7DtD; it would at least give a reason for people to not care what their rad level is and totally ignore it since there aren't extremely apparent consequences.

I always thought that bleeding, or some kind of debuff after being shot would be a good idea, but most people seem opposed to it.

that may cause imbalance in the fight with who are rich or poor
we will need a bandage if we are bleeding and an scientist may make it
who those rich may have tons of it, who those poor may have few of it.
this means the absoluteness of the power
so if we want to add some debuff when we get attacked, that opinion may under settlement of low and high

__________________________

Sakuya dance
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Cap-Coop

avatar

Posts : 59
Join date : 2013-11-17

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:03 am

*Meanwhile in the magical world of middle-class PNRP*



"That'd make a great base for miners he says."
"But all I have is my truck he says."

The economy in this game mode I feel is really broken but thats okay. When I'm done pouring a few hundred hours into Gmod I'll be RICH and then I can give reason why to not fix it for fear of loosing all my stuff.


__________________________


☽ Luna Nobis Providet ☽
Back to top Go down
View user profile
RemnantJohn

avatar

Posts : 32
Join date : 2014-02-09

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:44 am

Guys let's just cool it for a minute and realize how shitty all the 5.56 weapons are against NPCs
Back to top Go down
View user profile
DCWasteland3r

avatar

Posts : 526
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)   Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:54 am

RemnantJohn wrote:
Guys let's just cool it for a minute and realize how shitty all the 5.56 weapons are against NPCs
*against everything

__________________________
I'm back bitches!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Damage By Ammunition Type. (This is not a Weapon Buff Request.)
» Stripping plastic models of paint.
» "Bullet" Damage Type
» RESEARCH: Maximizing Damage and Defense
» DAMAGE FORMULA!!!!

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
 :: Fallout Decay :: Suggestions/Bugs/Technical-
Jump to: