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 Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR

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Bizz
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PostSubject: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:10 pm

Basically, I'm wondering what people's opinions are on the different types of fallout damage systems as damage in Fallout 3 and new Vegas are very different.

DR
In Fallout 3, the "DR" or Damage Resistance works the same way as armor in postnuke, if you have armor with a DT of 75, all damage will be multiplied by 0.25 and so forth. This system makes a lot of sense I suppose, but in all honesty when I actually think about it, the DR System is not as realistic as the DTDR System.

DTDR
The DTDR System is a bit more confusing, but basically it's a bit of a combination. First, the damage is reduced by DR like above. After the damage is reduced, the DT of the player is directly subtracted from the leftover damage, however, the damage cannot go below 20% of the first damage that was reduced by DR.
For example, lets say a player with armor that has a DR of 20 and a DT of 30 is shot by a round that does 40 damage. The damage is first multiplied by 0.8 because of the 30 DR, leaving you with 32 damage. the the armor's DT, 30 is then directly subtracted from 32, leaving you with 2 damage dealt overall, however, this is less than the minimum damage, which is 20% the DR Reduced damage, which is 2.4, meaning that the damage would be upped to 2.4 (When this happens in FNV, you might notice a shield icon appear on the target's health bar)

There are actually no armors in FNV that use DR, so taking DR into account isn't really necessary, so basically you can see it as the DT being subtracted from the damage itself, however the damage dealt to the player can never be less than 20% of the overall damage prior to it being reduced by DT. This system is actually a bit more realistic, since it doesn't make sense that a round from a 9mm handgun is reduced at the same amount as a .50BMG round by leather armor. A rough example is that only 2 damage is being reduced from a pistol, but over 30 is being reduced from a barret. This makes no sense.

One of the reasons I'm asking this question is because I'm wondering if I should change the system to be more like FNV's instead of Fallout 3's by using the DTDR system in postnuke, but really, what do you guys think? Personally I'd like to try the DT system, but keep in mind no armors would have a DT of over 30, and mot probably won't have a DR.
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Jeff Belinger
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:52 pm

i want that DTDR.
i got absolutely rekt in an event today by an AERwhatever, the green laser gun while wearing Assault armor. 1 shotted. 1 SHOTTED. Toxic told me the AER gun did around 200 damage.

now that I have some decent armor, i'd like my armor to actually be useful

another thing we NEED to know is: DOES PLASMA AND LASER COUNT AS BALISTIC OR RADIATION OR SOMETHING ELSE?

allcaps for makign the question clear.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:34 pm

The AER14 is technically an admin weapon. Who used it on you?
Oh and Plasma is an unlisted damage resistance, however it's almost always the same as ballistic damage.
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:35 pm

I prefer DT/DR. It's a lot more well-thought-out system than straight DR, and it is a lot more realistic.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:28 pm

This + Armor piercing rounds. Guess that AP rounds would bypass some DT, but subtract some damage overall, so they don't become magnum rounds. Back in CW AP rounds were kinda useless imo.

But without AP rounds, a armor that has 30 DT everything just becomes a peashooter at that point, except for snipers, battle rifles, etc, etc.

Literally would have to unload like 30 rounds into that guy (assuming ofc you're using a AK47/Sako), unless I'm doing this wrong... Probably am lol


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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:38 pm

Honestly, I don't think AP rounds would need a damage subtraction. I know the steel core means they don't expand as much, but for the sake of the current combat system, that loss of stopping power should be overlooked. Guns are weak AF already.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:54 pm

it was Toxic that used it I think. he was hosting an event. he thought, since i had powered assault armor, that I was gonna live, but nah, i got fucked over.

Policia kindly warded off people trying to take my stuff.
apparently you cant trust the people you are raiding with to give you your shit back except by people you have known, and known you for a while

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:07 am

I agree with Jeff about good armor. It should be decently difficult to take someone down in power armor. Hell in fallout bullets would literally just ping off of power armor unless it was some serious fire power like Bacon said battlerifles, energy weapons etc. However I think armor is more nerfed than guns. I mean lets face it there are some uber guns out there and youd think some sort of advanced power armor would be able to do a little more than survive one shot. So im going with the new vegas system for now as it realistically adjusts to armor type and material. I think its the most realistic way. It fixes armor being too weak and it fixes guns being too weak kinda evening out the ball field. This way a guy with no armor is pretty dead no matter what gun and a guy in heavy armor requires a heavy gun to take down.
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:12 am

Jeff Belinger wrote:
it was Toxic that used it I think. he was hosting an event. he thought, since i had powered assault armor, that I was gonna live, but nah, i got fucked over.

Policia kindly warded off people trying to take my stuff.
apparently you cant trust the people you are raiding with to give you your shit back except by people you have known, and known you for a while

The amount of greedy people in the world is no different then then in the smaller world of the wasteland.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:44 pm

"10/10 Like Skyrim with greedy people" -IGN

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:57 pm

DCWasteland3r wrote:
Honestly, I don't think AP rounds would need a damage subtraction. I know the steel core means they don't expand as much, but for the sake of the current combat system, that loss of stopping power should be overlooked. Guns are weak AF already.

Tbh guns are weak, but with the new armor system they're going to be even worse. AP rounds should give you an edge over armored opponents but not unarmored. We need to balance it somehow. I don't want it to be like magnum rounds with no increase in recoil.

Also, bringing IRL into the topic isn't that good of an argument imo. We should try to keep things realistic, but put game play number ahead of realism. When I come to this game, it usually means I'm tired of placing two precise rounds into a person's body at 200 meters, and now I'm in the mood to have to spray someone with multiple rounds.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:22 pm

That's just the thing though. You shoot someone with an AP round and they don't have armor, it's wasteful. That's it's own disadvantage right there. No need to make guns even more ridiculously weak than they already are. I know SOME people like having to shoot someone 7 times to kill them, but I am not one of those people, and having to shoot someone 10 times instead of 7 because you're using AP ammo is even worse.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:47 pm

hell DC 7 times for power armor is still pushing it... I mean your telling me realistically that a man in power armor shouldnt be able to survive a pistol mag to the chest? or even an mp5 mag... it just seems odd to wear that bulk of armor only to be weak anyway..
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:22 am

I'm talking about unarmored. Not in power armor. How dumb do you think I am lol?

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout: DTDR Vs. DR   Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:06 am

Tactical Bacon wrote:
This + Armor piercing rounds. Guess that AP rounds would bypass some DT, but subtract some damage overall, so they don't become magnum rounds. Back in CW AP rounds were kinda useless imo.

But without AP rounds, a armor that has 30 DT everything just becomes a peashooter at that point, except for snipers, battle rifles, etc, etc.

Literally would have to unload like 30 rounds into that guy (assuming ofc you're using a AK47/Sako), unless I'm doing this wrong... Probably am lol


That's why the best armor in Fallout: New Vegas has a DT of 28.
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