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 [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover

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PostSubject: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:46 am

Server: PNRP

Your SteamID: STEAM_0:1:20350176

Your RP Name: Eugene Toppleover

Date of incident: 4/4/15

Time of incident (HH:MM 24hr): 1-2 pm

Time Zone: Eastern

Please explain exactly what happened from start to finish:
    I created a base on rp_mojave and decided to start stealing cars as usual. I jump inside of (something Zion's?) car, which is the same as my VIP roadrunner flame, with him in the driver's seat to try stealing it if he gets out. He seems to not care that I'm in his car, and doesn't say anything to me. He then takes off into town and the moment he gets out, I move to the driver's side and drive away to my base at the tall tower right of spawn. I successfully make it to my base and store the car inside. I fiddle with my inventory and adjust some props, and need to give some ammo to my friend at town.

    Upon arriving at the town, the owner of the car that I stole notices me, and approaches me asking where his car is, no gun in hand, but in an aggressive tone. I run away in the opposite direction and get behind a wall for safety, manage drop my car down, and retreat away back to my base. I decide to wait a bit, and try going back to town from another direction meet up with my friend in town, but this time the guy starts to shoot at me, so I turn around and drive away again. To confirm who it is shooting at me, I drive back to get his name, and community.

    I drive back to my base, and he is following me, so I stop behind my building and watch him from a distance. I drive by who I believe is him, which it is, and get fired upon again, so I retreat the front of my base with this information in-front of the small booth to get ready to shoot him back. I wait for him to get closer to my base, and kill him with my pistol. I then take his suitcase's contents and go back into my base to sort things out and store some things in my car's trunk.

    A short while after, James Keith brings me to him and asks why I killed this man. I reply, he was shooting at me so I killed him with a desert eagle. He says alright and sends me back, however after a few minutes I get brought back. I'm told I'm not allowed to switch seats in cars like that because the car mod is currently bugged and you are unable to kick people out of your vehicle. Not knowing that was against the rules, I say I did not know that and will give his things back, so I spawn my car. Being the same as his, he mentions his car is the same as mine in voice chat. While getting his items out, I hear James say in surprise that I already had a car, and stops talking. Before I can get anything out of my car, or explain I was using my own car to drive around, or anything at all, I am permanently banned for the reason baiting. I honestly was trying my hardest to not break any of the server rules, and just want to be allowed back on the server again, although it seems I have left a terrible impression on many people... Thank you for reading these multiple paragraphs, and hopefully this clears things up.

If you have any evidence to support this report, please give it here:
    A new rule was added right after my ban: "While you can steal someone's car, if you do you cannot retaliate in any way when they attack you until you have left the car and have been away from it for over a minute. Stealing someone's car and then killing them after they shoot at you would be considered baiting. You can only retaliate if they have shot at you when more than one minute has passed. In relation to this, if someone steals your car, you're free to kill that person for the next five minutes, however, just to clarify, they will be able to retaliate, but only if you attacked them AFTER one minute has passed. Once five minutes has passed, a bounty hunter can still do the job."
Additionally, my previous forum account was banned, so I was unable to post an appeal.


Last edited by Sandbox on Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Whitewood

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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:00 am

It seems like theres a bunch of new 'rules' being implemented, that i think are completely idiotic and dont make any sense, making the gamemode pretty silly, friendly and 'safe'.

Really makes me feel like not even logging in, in light of these dozens of new rules.



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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:36 am

Whitewood wrote:
It seems like theres a bunch of new 'rules' being implemented, that i think are completely idiotic and dont make any sense, making the gamemode pretty silly, friendly and 'safe'.

Really makes me feel like not even logging in, in light of these dozens of new rules.




Stealing cars 24/7 with no RP related to why you're stealing makes this ban pretty valid imo, that rule will help prevent all these people that go around stealing cars and baiting people to shoot at them to just steal people's gear.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:24 am

If you already own a car, then there is no reason to steal a car other than to piss other people off, and that has nothing to do with roleplay, that's just being a dick. We already had a talk with you abou the difference between being a dick and roleplaying as a dick, and obviously you didn't listen. This gamemode is not made for you to go out of your way to find ways to kill people, and due to the limiting nature of map sizes it's really not meant for PVP in general. Sure raiding is allowed, but no one is patient or competent enough to actually do it. I always here people say "Well no one bases" when I see a locked down fort in the distance marked with "KOS" on it. So they result to messing with people to get them upset and create a situation where a fight can occur and end up exploiting it. This is called baiting.

When I saw that Eugene Toppleover had a car, then my first question was "Why does he need to steal someone's car if he already has one?"
I could only come up with one answer: "To get people annoyed at him, and possibly attack him so that he can kill them and take their stuff".
We don't need someone like that on the server.


The new rule was added after I banned you to avoid any other confusion in the matter. As far as I'm concerned the rule is pretty solid and it won't create any more ambiguity in this issue in the future and while I admit that Eugene's ban wasn't in line with the new rule, keep in mind that this rule was added After Eugene was banned, and I didn't even add the rule because of Eugene. I added it because on that day in particular, a bunch of people where exploiting the stealing of vehicles to get people to attack them. I remember adding that rule after having to deal with that same situation two times after banning Eugene infact. The point is that as far as the current rules where concerned, it wasn't allowed falling under the common sense rule; You aren't allowed to go around making reasons to kill people, and stealing cars just to get people upset is an example of this so you can kill them is an example of this. I honestly considered making stealing cars impossible after this, and if it continues to be a problem like it is now, I will.

Also, whitewood, before you say that the new rules make things safer, look at the rule I added right before this one:
Rules wrote:
You cannot build a base that is made to be unraidable. What constitutes as unraidable is anything that is designed to create "fish in a barrel" sort of scenarios. This means that your base can never be designed so that someone inside of the base can hurt someone who is attempting to pick a lock/crack a keypad. You are also not allowed to create tight hallways for your base. Your base entrance must allow two people walking next to each other to enter at once.
Yeah. This totally makes the wasteland more safe. Yeah. Totally. :V
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:59 am

I've been stealing cars and playing it off as "having found their car" or "know where it is" and can give it to them for resources. I've been trying to sell cars back to people but most of the time they attempt killing me instead of paying my offer, which usually happens most of the time just because of my reputation for constantly doing this. If I'm not killed before the 5 minutes I get hits placed on me and people wait outside of my base to kill me and raid for their cars back. I've probably only had one instance where I was actually paid to give the car back.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:20 pm

Whitewood wrote:
It seems like theres a bunch of new 'rules' being implemented, that i think are completely idiotic and dont make any sense, making the gamemode pretty silly, friendly and 'safe'.

Really makes me feel like not even logging in, in light of these dozens of new rules.

Here's the thing you have to remember, rules like this are meant to prevent the abuse of game mechanics. In any realistic situation, you wouldn't be able to just press a button and magically take control of someone else's car. As well as this, baiting has always been a SEVERE issue on this server, and should be discouraged in any way possible, because it's a huge headache for everyone involved.

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Last edited by DCWasteland3r on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typoz.)
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:44 pm

You misunderstand me, i wasnt defending this Eugene guy, goin around stealing peoples cares, ok. hes a douchebag, thus deserving to get banned.

What i speak of is the dozen or so rules beforehand, aswell as the Rule you quoted as an example to me, unraidable bases. While there are plenty of bases that can be raided and coordinated successfully, Making unraidable bases would most likely be against the rules.
It wouldnt be nessesary to add the rule of not being able to make fish in a barrel bases, etc.

The way i see it, its people bitching and being little pansies because they dont know how to raid a base or coordinate properly, etc. You cant always listen to the playerbase in order to change the gamemode/game to work in their favor.

You've already lost a few good players due to all this.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:38 pm

If you were already banned for this why would you do it again.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:02 pm

this reminds me of the artik ninetails guy who exploited the car thing just to piss people off, hell he even got the victims banned even though he was the one being a prick.

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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:43 pm

RedCloud wrote:
this reminds me of the artik ninetails guy who exploited the car thing just to piss people off, hell he even got the victims banned even though he was the one being a prick.

Oh wow, he sounds like a leech.

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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:08 pm

I'm guessing the rule was if you were to do this you would have to get out of the car and go to the driver seat or is there like no plain car stealing.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:32 pm

Any news here? I did explain that I had a valid RP reason for stealing cars as a source of income.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:19 pm

I mean I understand your rp reason but if it's constant constant constant then it's really annoying and how you get raided and killed everytime. You die over and over again what do you lose nothing.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:00 am

With more newer and newer players baiting is more of an issue.. The more experienced groups just wipe you off the face of the wasteland for stupid crimes like this but baiting is baiting and even though I prefer to handle (or atleast try to if it doesnt get out if hand) it in character. My way of thinking is if you kill them, war them, take all they own, then they most likely wont steal from you. But using the switch seat option to steal a car is pretty cheap to do. Back in "the day" you needed a lockpick and some fancy sneak skill to steal cars.. and please guys wait for the car owner to initiate combat or else this shit will happen again.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:31 pm

Blackhawkdownabc wrote:
With more newer and newer players baiting is more of an issue.. The more experienced groups just wipe you off the face of the wasteland for stupid crimes like this but baiting is baiting and even though I prefer to handle (or atleast try to if it doesnt get out if hand) it in character. My way of thinking is if you kill them, war them, take all they own, then they most likely wont steal from you. But using the switch seat option to steal a car is pretty cheap to do. Back in "the day" you needed a lockpick and some fancy sneak skill to steal cars.. and please guys wait for the car owner to initiate combat or else this shit will happen again.

He pretty much always lock picked the cars.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:41 pm

Whenever the immortals raided his base and killed him at least 20 times, he never dropped anything. He usually combat logged anything he had equipped.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:54 pm

Also his bases were air locked and no way of getting in I think he knows that and one occasion you and Leonard tried to rob Seth from his car while pointing a gun at him trying to make him attack you since he had a hard suit and tried to bait hum several times with leonard.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:00 pm

lukevader24011 wrote:
Also his bases were air locked and no way of getting in I think he knows that and one occasion you and Leonard tried to rob Seth from his car while pointing a gun at him trying to make him attack you since he had a hard suit and tried to bait hum several times with leonard.
Jim Warren wrote:
Whenever the immortals raided his base and killed him at least 20 times, he never dropped anything. He usually combat logged anything he had equipped.

If my bases are "airlocked", an admin would remove them instantly if you showed it to them, however there was only one scenario recently where an admin was called. My keypads were bugged out and that situation was dealt with quickly, and I let the people continue raiding into my base. Shouldn't be making accusations of combat logging, because you literally can't store items in a combat zone.

Bizzclaw wrote:
The point is that as far as the current rules where concerned, it wasn't allowed falling under the common sense rule; You aren't allowed to go around making reasons to kill people, and stealing cars just to get people upset is an example of this so you can kill them is an example of this. I honestly considered making stealing cars impossible after this, and if it continues to be a problem like it is now, I will.

I explained in my previous comment, and in my post that I had the car in my base for the whole duration after it was stolen. It was the guy's own decision to attack me once he saw me in town the second time much later where I took a detour to avoid him. If he had not tried killing me, I could have offered him his car back for a price of 30+ each which was my intention and what I've been doing with the cars I steal. You neglected my side of the story the moment you decided I was baiting in consideration to my reputation. If stealing cars is ruled as baiting 95% of the time because someone dies, then you shouldn't be allowed to steal cars at all.

Bizzclaw wrote:
Sure raiding is allowed, but no one is patient or competent enough to actually do it. I always here people say "Well no one bases" when I see a locked down fort in the distance marked with "KOS" on it. So they result to messing with people to get them upset and create a situation where a fight can occur and end up exploiting it. This is called baiting.
Rules wrote:
You cannot build a base that is made to be unraidable. What constitutes as unraidable is anything that is designed to create "fish in a barrel" sort of scenarios. This means that your base can never be designed so that someone inside of the base can hurt someone who is attempting to pick a lock/crack a keypad. You are also not allowed to create tight hallways for your base. Your base entrance must allow two people walking next to each other to enter at once.
Even if the bases have KOS signs, there is no proof of anything raidable inside anyway. I haven't seen a base with any grubs or anything raidable since that rule has been added. It's mostly just plants and shops in the wasteland. I would be raiding but you can not raid unless you know for a fact something raidable is inside. Trying to raid like that usually ends up in a ban as I've seen multiple cases of as ruled by the admins.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:11 pm

Sandbox wrote:
Shouldn't be making accusations of combat logging, because you literally can't store items in a combat zone.

You pick-lock the cars, then when we shoot at you we usually kill you within 1 minute, your lock-pick is never on your dead body.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:03 am

That and you never tell the owner of the car you'll give it back for resources you just lock it in your base and go steal more.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:25 am

That's silly its like saying "hey I got your car don't shoot me OK" unless the person is nice they will kill you
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:07 pm

Well only reason I said that was because he tries to sell them back what he mentioned if he knows he's going to get shot why steal them.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:13 pm

Jim Warren wrote:
You pick-lock the cars, then when we shoot at you we usually kill you within 1 minute, your lock-pick is never on your dead body.
lukevader24011 wrote:
That and you never tell the owner of the car you'll give it back for resources you just lock it in your base and go steal more.
If that was true, and you killed me within a minute after stealing a car, you would have found my items. Stop making false accusations out of spite.

My appeal is being neglected, and is being reviewed by a majority of people with biased opinions towards me. I was banned on the spot without any investigation prior to the decision made by James that day. I am requesting a fair trial of the alleged baiting from that day, specifically from an unbiased point of view.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:22 pm

It's simply true, you inventory your only things to prevent you from making another when you try and steal cars again.
Not gonna argue it further, i know what iv seen since iv killed you many times with a raiding group or just out of seeing you steal a car.
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PostSubject: Re: [Expired] Removal of Ban Eugene Toppleover   Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:44 am

Last time I'm posting why do you steal cars if you know your going to get shot and no one is going to pay you
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