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 Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders

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Kiwi

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PostSubject: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:44 pm

I would like to suggest decreasing the amount of damage the new low level raiders deal per shot. They seem to have developed a "scourge" reputation among newer players.

As for me, I was killed by a newly spawned raider in a previously animal invested area while looking in my inventory for a very short time - long enough to break down one item - and I don't believe that 6 expertly aimed pistol shots against a person dressed in mark II combat armor is in the spirit of the game. As well as the low amount of experience they offer I feel this is too high. A novice I would think would inspire more confidence for a player to go against in combat.

Perhaps they're still being fine tuned at this point but I figured it was worth bringing up in the suggestions.
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Ice Frost

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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:58 pm

+support I just saw 2 guys without armor got rekt instantly by 1 npc with pistol and they spawned near spawnpoint ometimes.
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:46 pm

+support The ai is op, I can get mowed down way to fast and they instantly start shooting as soon as you get near em.
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:22 pm

Unless the raiders have been buffed since I last played with them, I think they are fine just where they are. They are designed to emulate real players, and I think they are doing fine in just that. I was actually surprised how easy they were to kill, I forgot how little protection the bandit tier armor gives. Much squishier than Conglo. My only qualm is that the raider node at the bottom of spawn hill on the NewVegas map needs to go. It makes it impossible for new players to enter the map.

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DCWasteland3r

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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:20 am

Raiders in general are a bit overpowered IMO. It's like a constant, slow-acting conglomerate drop, except you can't get good loot from them.

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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:21 am

Okay, will be brought up today with Bizzclaw.

Thanks for the feedback.
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Bizz
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:48 am

NO.
They do the same damage as players. Use tactics/cover when fighting them.
They also have a low aggro range, so fighting them is optional.
*cough* wasteland *cough*

Also, as far as that raider spawns on the map, it shouldn't pose much of a problem as raiders will only attack you if you have a weapon with ammo equipped, otherwise they point their gun at you and tell you to go away.
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:13 am

I dont mind the toughness but why do they have to one shot me in a hardsuit? with a PISTOL Sad((( maybe if they had a diferent gun and one shotted me i wouldnt care but ive seen a raider rookie reck 3 ppl i power armor.. Dont get me wrong I LOVE THE CHALLENGE but its a little degrading to get almost THE BEST armor and to die to a noob gun im almost one shot.. unless its a bug? idk it just seems really odd i could see if they were using rifles but a pistol is just taunting us lol. Anyways jamz the AI is amazing! like youve managed to code better ai than activision at this point... they feel real... too real... hopefully they dont gain the ability to think and take over the server xD
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Bizz
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:15 am

Please record a video of a raider "one shotting" you with a pistol, because I have never been able to recreate an incident in which a pistol raider neutralizes me with one shot. I'll post a video of my tests when I get home.
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:52 am

ok ill test it out when i get home tonight, you can ask johann as its happened to both of us before too during encounters.. its just odd
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:54 am

jamz could they be maybe squeezing out more shots than i can see/hear because of a lag spike or something like that?
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:35 pm

While the raider AI is intelligent, they do alot of damage for a 10mm pistol. Perhaps a good balance would be either making them spawn closer together or in groups but lower damage, to make them more.....accurate to the NPC they were based on. Also, a chinese pistol would be neat for them to use.

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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:07 pm

I say we should really decrease the damage from the pistol they deal with. They killed my leather armor cultivator in like 4 shots. Also, they should spawn maybe in camps or abandon areas.

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Bizz
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:47 am

Okay.
I have a compromise.
Right now, all NPCs including raiders, enclave and super mutants have a 1/3 chance to aim for your head every shot.

Instead, I will factor their rank into to the chance for them to aim at your head (which does double damage), for example, raider rookies will only have a 1/10 chance of aiming for your head, while more experience enemies will have a 6/10 chance for aiming for your head. These numbers are example numbers, obviously, but you know what I mean. This will make it so that rookie raiders don't seem as over powered with their weaponry, but also adding more challenge to the NPCs that you'd expect higher accuracy from.

Thoughts?
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Gamerchef

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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:12 am

What were the chances of the enemy hitting you in the head before, and will this make some battles and raids easier? Also, what do Raiders drop?

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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:46 am

Eh even though the damage is op they drop guns sometimes and good loot, but in the other hand if they spawn on you, you will die probably
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:58 am

The reduced chance for a raider to make a headshot makes it easier not to die in power armor, which is great. Boosting the chance for NPCs such as Enclave to get headshots make sense and fair as they're technically elite soldiers equipped in the best armor. Also, raiders drop
-Badlands armor
-Combat Shotgun
-10mm Pistols
-10mm SMGs
-Chinese Assault Rifles
-Stimpacks
-Ammo

That's what I know so far that they drop, more experienced raiders will probably drop metal armors .
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Bizz
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:57 pm

Gamerchef wrote:
What were the chances of the enemy hitting you in the head before?

Sorry, but, how could you miss that?

As for loot, the chance that they even drop a suitcase depends on who kills them. Newer players actually have a bonus to this chance as for them it will be harder to fight the raiders then it would for, say, someone in Power Armor with max weapon handling who barrets the raider's face. (Yes, "Barrets" is now a verb.)

Also, they have a chance to drop whatever gear they're wearing, meaning their armor, weapons, and ammo for that current weapon. Obviously, the more effective said gear is, the lower their chance of dropping it. They also have a chance to drop stimpaks and this is dependent on their rank.

Enclave soldiers however will not drop their armor, rather, sometimes they will drop the blueprint for the armor in question.
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Malcom

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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:58 am

food for think

i remember i have wrote about the raiders that they are too too weak

and i came back to the server and they were very stong just like when i got killed by new conglo npcs(remember when i told you that their dmg has serious bug)
i was walking through apocalyps map starting road. and i heard 10mm shooting and i was getting shot. as my experience, their damage, accuracy i perfectly confident that that was player. so i ran to opposite way and there were another three ppl. i thought they were waring with some faction and they miss killed me. but it wasnt. it was just one raider and i just got humilated by one novice raider.

you said you will nurf them 1/3 by 1/10. but as their name, spawn rate they are still too strong for new~middles which means they will meet atleast one size of raider those who are similar with normal faction of player. the problem of that percentage of accuracy is that thats just a number will they hit -player's head- or not, not will they actually hit player or not.
as current situation, it is not good idea to add good rewards for their head which means they should give lower reward. and that also means they should be a target of the new~middle players not the sweeping target of who are shooting their head with barret which is now happening.

i was wearing a recon armor(with scavenger) and i think i got killed by 6~7 shots(perfect shot)
i was running and also hiding my head and i know how to dodge the bullet
as my assement, their combat capability is same or higher with former conglos

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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:32 pm

Yeah, I support this, I got 1 shot a few days ago in reinforced leather armor and metal helmet, scavengers dont stand a headshot chance.
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:13 pm

The raiders are fine, you are a fool if you try to participate in any armed combat as a scavenger. Change classes or hire a wastelander bodyguard, they will appreciate the pay.

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Kiwi

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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:06 pm

Dr. Exavolt wrote:
The raiders are fine, you are a fool if you try to participate in any armed combat as a scavenger. Change classes or hire a wastelander bodyguard, they will appreciate the pay.

I regularly went against groups of conglomerate soldiers as a scavenger with a 25 round famas and did just fine. The raiders are; or at least were, overpowered before I made this topic.
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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:13 pm

Dr. Exavolt wrote:
Unless the raiders have been buffed since I last played with them, I think they are fine just where they are. They are designed to emulate real players, and I think they are doing fine in just that. I was actually surprised how easy they were to kill, I forgot how little protection the bandit tier armor gives. Much squishier than Conglo. My only qualm is that the raider node at the bottom of spawn hill on the NewVegas map needs to go. It makes it impossible for new players to enter the map.



Quote :
The raiders are fine, you are a fool if you try to participate in any armed combat as a scavenger. Change classes or hire a wastelander bodyguard, they will appreciate the pay.

While i agree with exavolt's bodyguard suggestion, Real players take connection, HUMAN reaction speed, and aim. "Real" players dont aimbot, compensate for recoil, and may miss a few shots thanks to Gmod's crappy hitscan.

(Scavengers are one of the hardest classes to hit at max athletics)


Although with Bizz's Compromise the raiders should be balanced for new players, especially if they spawn near the Player Spawn

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Kiwi

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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:33 pm

Crappy hitscan and lag FTW.

I don't think even Fubar was as accurate as those raiders.
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Malcom

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PostSubject: Re: Decrease the damage rate of novice raiders   Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:56 am

i was picking up someone in my road runner and passing through the road
and raider suddenly appeared and started shooting him just 4 shot with 10mm smg(he was enginneer) then he died

" />
crime scene

ps.why my images are so small

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