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 [Clarification] On cases

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Dylan Song



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PostSubject: [Clarification] On cases   Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:48 pm

Hey man I'm here today because something I thought was bluntly stated in the rules was considered a grey area today I'd like rules to state such things if possible to add.

So today I was killed for stealing from a player box without warning I was gunned down, but I referred to these rules and the admin deemed him inno anyway
https://sites.google.com/site/frostburntwiki/home/rules

So what had happened is I stole a shotgun shell from a dead body and got gunned down quickly. But I wasn't given any forum of warning, it pisses my off a bit because it's clearly stated here that a warning is need.

[1] Fighting over resource piles or dropped items. You must warn the person in TEXT, and you must have been the first person at the resource pile and they don't leave it within 10 seconds. Someone cannot walk up to someone already scavenging a pile and threaten them to leave.
[5] Someone has stolen an item you dropped. (YOU MUST ASK/WARN THEM TO GIVE IT BACK . You must ask/warn them in order to place a hit as well.)

So I hear the argument that a case is different because
1. It's still stealing.
2. It's literally still a forum of drop, it's almost like when you kill a mob it drops or something of the sort.

I believe that he didn't have a valid reason to kill me right away without warning and I demand a refund until it is clarified in the rules.

- Thank you for read sincerely DylanSong
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Bill Andrews

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PostSubject: Re: [Clarification] On cases   Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:57 pm

To be honest there have been a lot of cases in which staff were biased, I was even in a sit and he ruled me as doing the right thing. The main reason for that is because usually they're in big factions and so are the staff members, this brings a friendship and a bond between them and they don't want their friend to have a grudge on them, which means that it's not entirely the staff member's fault.
Also it usually is killable to look into a case and steal something, I still see your point in it saying you need to warn them. Although at the same time it says to use common sense, if you steal something in real life you're obviously in danger. It's still stupid to demand a refund on the forums.
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Opsan
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PostSubject: Re: [Clarification] On cases   Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:38 pm

I hate to be "that guy" when it comes to arguing with the rules. Since, for the most part, they were designed to fit the cushy, PvE, casual crowd that the community exhibited a couple months ago. I don't agree with the current rules when it comes to stealing. It favors the thief too much, and doesn't give the victim much leeway to act reasonably.

(III) [C] {5} Someone has stolen an item you dropped. (YOU MUST ASK/WARN THEM TO GIVE IT BACK . You must ask/warn them in order to place a hit as well.)

This to me is absolutely ridiculous. You're putting way too much faith in the person stealing to assume that they won't just instantly take off. I mean, what would you do if you jacked a purse from a lil' old lady? Stick around? Hell no. You're gonna book it.

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Bill Andrews

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PostSubject: Re: [Clarification] On cases   Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:53 pm

Opsan is right, they should know that stealing will get themselves killed in a fucking wasteland.
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Evilsweetbl0ck

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PostSubject: Re: [Clarification] On cases   Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:51 pm

The answer to the cushy pve enviroment is less lag, its impossible to pvp with all this dank af lag

Edit: but to post something relevant to the post, why would someone want to kill you anyway? your such a nice person, that person should feel ashamed xD
Hope you get a refund

Editx2: oops I thought you were sarahsong, disregard above post, however I still hope you get a refund or whatnot Razz

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Last edited by Evilsweetbl0ck on Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Coront
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PostSubject: Re: [Clarification] On cases   Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:52 pm

Opsan wrote:
(III) [C] {5} Someone has stolen an item you dropped. (YOU MUST ASK/WARN THEM TO GIVE IT BACK . You must ask/warn them in order to place a hit as well.)

This to me is absolutely ridiculous. You're putting way too much faith in the person stealing to assume that they won't just instantly take off. I mean, what would you do if you jacked a purse from a lil' old lady? Stick around? Hell no. You're gonna book it.

I added that rule to prevent people from just dropping a useless item in the middle of the road and wait there until someone comes and picks it up not knowing it was stealing, all so they could kill them. And before you say that would never happen, it was the only thing happening after we removed the baiting rules.

Dylan Song wrote:
So what had happened is I stole a shotgun shell from a dead body and got gunned down quickly. But I wasn't given any forum of warning, it pisses my off a bit because it's clearly stated here that a warning is need.

You can kill someone for stealing from a case without warning, although I think we accidentally removed that from the rules at one point, so If you could tell me who did the sit, I'll handle it. If you you say is true, you will get your items back.

Also, to address this:
Dylan Song wrote:
I believe that he didn't have a valid reason to kill me right away without warning and I demand a refund until it is clarified in the rules.

We're not forced to refund you, it's not against the law for us to just ban anyone for just no reason. We're volunteers and are doing this in our free time, so we'd appreciate if you could be understanding and not go demanding refunds like you're entitled to it.
The admin who did the sit wasn't being biased against you, there isn't a conspiracy to this like you appear to think. It was already a rule in the past and was mistakenly removed at some point. Obviously the staff member didn't realize it was removed, just like the rest of us didn't.

Bill Andrews wrote:
To be honest there have been a lot of cases in which staff were biased, I was even in a sit and he ruled me as doing the right thing. The main reason for that is because usually they're in big factions and so are the staff members, this brings a friendship and a bond between them and they don't want their friend to have a grudge on them, which means that it's not entirely the staff member's fault.
Also it usually is killable to look into a case and steal something, I still see your point in it saying you need to warn them. Although at the same time it says to use common sense, if you steal something in real life you're obviously in danger. It's still stupid to demand a refund on the forums.

I say this time and time again, if a staff member is being biased against you and you want to keep it secret or a private matter, PLEASE private message me on the forums, poke me on teamspeak, or add me on steam. I'll look into it and nobody has to know.
Some people claim "The staff is corrupt" and "The staff is biased", but when I ask them to get me evidence of it like a video or something they never get back to me. (Use Overwolf, seriously. It's free and lets you record videos really easily, from there you just have to upload it to Youtube. You can get overwolf from here: http://www.overwolf.com/. Using the record demo command is also good for it, and it's already built into gmod.)
The best way to get evidence of an admin that is abusing is for them to not know anyone is aware they're doing it in the first place, so really posting an admin abuse report is a bad way to do it if you don't already have evidence.

EDIT: I realized that the rule in question (on stealing) is listed twice. I'm just gonna slip that and the suitcase rule on into the first time it's mentioned ([III]>[B]>[4]).

Rule used to be: "[4] You witness a player steal something from you (Weapons, vehicles, etc. It doesn't count if they stole it from your case because of NLR)."
Rule is now: "[4] You witness a player steal something from you.  If the stolen thing is an item (Weapon, Armor, Ammo, etc.) you must warn the person to return it before killing or placing a hit on them. You do not have to warn them if the stolen thing is a car or a suitcase."

EDIT 2: Sorry for making a wall of text.

TL;DR- Rule was removed accidentally. Tell me who the admin was that did the sit. If staff are abusing, tell me about it so something can actually be done about it.

Have a nice day.


Last edited by Coront on Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : gay)
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Dylan Song



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PostSubject: Re: [Clarification] On cases   Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:54 pm

He wasn't bias in anyway it was just confusing on the clarification, thank you for adding a rule back, I was mislead.
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Ice Frost

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PostSubject: Re: [Clarification] On cases   Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:07 pm

"Why would someone want to kill you anyway? your such a nice person, that person should feel ashamed xD"
Just because one person is nice doesn't mean everyone is nice too what do you expected from wasteland? Safeland naw.

Also I try my best not to bias as I can, in your situation and I guess I did fine job.
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